This week we will begin a discussion on same sex marriage, and the rights homosexuals have under our current laws. So when I heard over the break that a local business, Just Cookies, declined to take an order from a diversity group at IUPUI, I knew I wanted to blog about it. The diversity group had tried to order rainbow colored cupcakes for National Coming Out Day which occurs on October 11th. Since the group was denied service, the story has made national news, with people weighing in both for and against.
Owner Lilly Stockton said she didn’t have sufficient materials to make the rainbow colors needed for the order. Her husband and co-owner David Stockton had a different explanation of why his business declined the order. As he told Fox 59, “We’re a family run business, we have two young impressionable daughters and we thought it was best we didn’t do that”.
Protesters with GetEQUAL Indiana rallied today at the City Market to protest what they see as discrimination towards homosexuals. The city of Indianapolis has launched an investigation to determine if the business violated Indianapolis' anti-discriminatory ordinance. Just Cookies released a statement today, which said in part, “In the United States, citizens have the right to demonstrate, and businesses have the right to operate within the bounds of the law. As citizens and owners of a small business, we pray that our country remains a free Democratic society and these rights are never taken away by anyone who seeks to unlawfully impose their will or agenda on others."
So my question to you this week is two-fold, “Should small businesses have the right to serve whoever they want or did Just Cookies violate the anti-discrimination ordinance? What do you think could be done to encourage equality among people of all backgrounds?” You must answer both questions to earn full credit. Answers are due no later than Sunday, October 17th, 2010.
I don't think they violated the anti-discrimination act since homosexuals are not included. But I do believe that though they are not included they are still people who have feelings, who breathe, eat, and sleep. They are entitled to respect. I think they should be included in the discrimination act. Simply because it's wrong to pass judgement on people I may not agree with the life style but that doesn't give me the right to judge anyone. And I think the situation was childish on the Just Cookies owners. It's not right that we as a people are so stuck in our ways that we can't just show a little consideration or respect to people out of the "Norm"
ReplyDeletei do think that they were discriminating. i think that businesses should not discriminate at all and that would clear up the equality problem.
ReplyDeleteIt is my understanding that as a business owner you do have to the right to refuse service to anyone, but that since they are working out of a city owned building, that the city is the one facing the charges. I do not agree with the owners treatment of a paying customer. I do however feel that an owner of a businees should have the right to deney service but not when it's simply for discremtive reasons. I think that when it comes to promoting equality and encouraging others to treat there neigbors as they would want to be treated, unfortunalty we have a long road ahead. Education is KEY, most people are just ignorant, and I feel that if we educate people on the diffreneces of others and understand that not everyone is going to think, dress, or act like we feel they should many issues would be avoided. It's simply about respecting eachother, and our diffrences, but that begins at home, and in our schools.
ReplyDeleteWhen we had this discussion in class I honestly found it interesting. Yes, he as a business owner, can deny service to anyone he wants. I got that, but to deny someone service because of their sexual orientation, i just find that ignorant. It would be one thing if they were going nuts in the place annoying people, but they weren't, they were most likely minding their own business like everyone else. Also i feel like he used his daughters as excuse for part of his choice. I wonder if this guy knows all his daughters friends. I'm not quite sure how old they are but still. Is he going to deny his daughters friends and advise them not to talk to them any more? I'm off rambling but let me get to the questions, Yes they should have the right but only if they group or people who ever they may be not just homosexuals are causing a fuss or a riot in the place and i also feel like he was discriminating against them. People can improve the quality of these situations to me just by getting over it. It's ridiculous. Last thing, this guy might have lost a lot of his business if this is the way he wants to be.
ReplyDeleteNot that I frequent cookie shops, but this makes me not want to go to Just Cookies. It is surprising to me that anyone would turn down any type of business with the situation in our economy. That job could have led to many more customers, not to mention good publicity. Sexual orientation should not come into play when buying cookies. Businesses should have the right to deny service for justified reasons, not because they disagree with someones lifestyle. They are teaching their daughters to pass judgement and to be disrespectful based on differences. Education about equality is a good start to informing people about how to treat others that are different than you. It starts at home though as well because parents need to teach their kids that not everyone is the same but everyone deserves respect.
ReplyDeleteI think that they were discriminating, yet at the same time, i think that it wasn't going towards discriminating. The owner said that they didn't have to items for the order, but the husband used the daughters for justifying the actions. I think that bussiness shouldn't have the right to decide who to serve and who not to serve and the way to create equality is not to judge, on the choices that they make.
ReplyDeleteIt is the choice of the owners to serve who they want. Is it right, no, but they can do it. I was watching the news one night and there was a restaurant in North or South Carolina and the refused to serve people that had babies or young children. It is a different subject but it is the same concept. The reason that they would not do this is because they would make noise and cry. Well boo-hoo. If i was a business owner i would want to make as much money and have as much business as I could. This could really hurt there flow of customers because of rallys, and then the news being involed. To say that there two daughters was the reason that they did not want to make the cupcakes, it was just a big excuse.
ReplyDeleteI think as a business you should be able to deny service to people of your choice as long as the despute doesn't become violent. Like if he were to chase them out of the store with a weapon screaming "No gays". At the end of the day there's going to be some against and some for this refusal to serve. As for question 2, by law as a human being we are all equal, but in order for everyone to treat everyone as such, we must begin to accept others' decisions whatever they may be.
ReplyDeletePersonally i believe that Just Cookies did discriminate but honestly they will more likely get away with it because it's not on the anti-discrimination act. But after this it will be added i'm sure. And education will deffinatly help to make a stop to all this but honestly it needs to happen at home. People need to be aware that there are homosexuals out there and people should educate their children that they are humans and they have feelings.
ReplyDeleteI think they did violate the discrimination act. Although, I think the company can turn away anyone they feel may be troublesome to their business, I don't think they had a right to turn away someone that just wanted cookies and coffee. They did not cause trouble and they did not try and push any flyers about who they were and what they were about.
ReplyDeleteAs far as what can be done about equality, I really do not have an answer to that at this point because people in general have been fighting that cause for years. It will take a lot of hard work and many petitions to change things at this point nad there are many people, including my sisters in-laws, who are doing so right now.
Gays are not included in the anti-discrimination ordinance, though I believe they should be, so technically and perhaps legally they did not do anything wrong.
ReplyDeleteMorally, I feel they did do the wrong thing. Customers are customers. I don't understand the issue the father had -- if his daughters are so impressionable as he said and he is that concerned about it, why not simply omit the detail that the cookies were for gays?
If it was a simple issue of not having the facilities/materials to make an order that big or with those colors, I can understand Just Cookies turning away the business. Or if they came in pushing their agenda or being disorderly. Companies should be able to deny service if their customers are being disorderly or unsafe to themselves or others. They should not be able to deny service if their customers belong to a certain group/race.
Overall, its ignorant to discriminate -- period. I think the discrimination comes from not understanding, people fear what they don't understand and more often than not that turns to an angry discriminating attitude. If we took the time to learn and understand, I don't think it would be an issue.
Well first of all I don't believe that anyone should turn down an order for anything that is for any type of school or school group. I don't believe that the shop turned down the order because they didn't have all of the necessary ingredients or materials, there had to be some discussion of what the cupcakes were for. And yes small business owners can serve whomever they want, but for a small business to stay open and make a profit they need the community to support them. Any way you look at this it bad publicity. Even if you do support their decision. Because the people that do agree with their choice aren't going to go in there to buy goodies just because of what they did. But people who think that they did discriminate are not going to their shop, so they are losing clientele. I think that we need to have an equality law, people should be treated equal no matter what, including status in the community, race, and even sexuality.
ReplyDeleteI do believe a small business has the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason. As bad as it sounds, if I had a graphic design company I should have the right to who I want to serve. I do agree with one of the previous comments about the city owned building, and I do believe they discriminated against them. If I were the owner I would have served them, but only in a manner that would have remained nuetral to not loose loyal customers that were against them. U.S. citizens do need to grow up and accept that everyone is not the same so that maybe we could live peace (e.g. education)
ReplyDeleteHaving worked in a restaurant, I do believe owners should be able to refuse service, as long as it's not based on discrimination. A customer that is refused service should either be disturbing the operation of the business or have done so in the past.
ReplyDeleteTo encourage equality I think we need to be more aggressive with education. For example, a simple commercial promoting equality among all people, specifically noting that homosexuals have the same rights as everyone else and that ignorance has caused this issue in the first place. If no one is causing harm, why should it bother you?
In my opinion Just Cookies did violated the anti-discrimination ordinance, because if they want to be in business they should treat all their customers equally, and if they decide not to take orders from certain group of people then it’s their loss and they should not be in business at all. I think all business should have equal customer service weather it’s small/big or private/non-private, because it’s for the owners own benefits if they give better n equal service, they will get better outcome.
ReplyDeleteI don’t know even if we encourage people somehow to treat everyone equally, that they are going to follow that! Every person has their own thinking and opinion about certain group of people, even thought if there is something to be done about it I would defiantly get together people of all backgrounds and have them interact with each other so they can understand they are one more individual just like we all are, they are not alien from another planet.
I don't think they violated the anti-discrimination ordinance because, like we talked about in class, homosexuals are not included in this act. However, I don't understand why Just Cookies wouldn't want the business from these people. Those people's personal life choices really have nothing to do with the views of the business. I think to keep problems like this from happening, businesses need to realize that. If businesses would realize that it could help encourage equality.
ReplyDeleteGranted homosexuals are not included in the anti-discrimination, small business should not discriminate to anyone. This family lost a profit because of this. The bottom line in any business, it is to make a profit. Even though they don't agree with the group, they should not judge the IUPUI group. The family should teach that to their children. I would like to see this case go to the supreme court. First, to make it a law not to discriminate to any homosexual individual. Second, this will help change the marriage law that we have now. This will encourage all states to be equal across the nation.
ReplyDeleteIn most Bibles that you read, it states do not judge and to treat others like you would be treated. On every document for hirer or school or general public information, we should have a statement saying we will no discrimination and it wouldn't be tolerated. America is a divers nation and we encourage equality of all backgrounds, including homosexuality.
I would have to say no on both cases. For the first case, sure they can say that cannot serve people who don't have the money for the food or if someone is not old enough to order, but they should not deny service if the person or people can afford the food regardless of their origins. That's like denying service to anyone who looks like they should not eat sweets because he, she, or they are too fat to have any. For the second case, I don't think they violated the act because the act does not include sexual origins. I believe how everyone would get along in this situation is if the bakery provided the service but not ask why or what a certain order is for. Then both sides would have gotten along and go hand and hand with each other. The group would've gotten their cupcakes and the bakery would've gotten their pay for service.
ReplyDeleteI don't understand why businesses have the right to decline services for something like that. I feel like it the act was very anti-discrimitory. Equality should be encouraged because we are all living, breathing human beings. I do not understand how people can act like this.
ReplyDeleteWell first off I don’t think they violated anti-discrimination ordinance, but I definitely don’t agree with what they did. Seems to me to be a little bit too much. As a business owner you do have the right to refuse business to someone within reason though. I feel like Just Cookies could have handled this situation a lot better. A great way to encourage equality among all would be setting up informational groups that teach others about different ethnic groups and lifestyles. The best way not to insult someone is to be informed.
ReplyDeleteI think that them just turning them down like that was wrong. I also think it was wrong that they lied about why they were turning them down. I personally think that equality should be encouraged because it is not fair to treat someone that different because they choose to have different sexual orientation. I really think it was wrong for Just Cookies to discriminate against the gay community.
ReplyDeleteWhile I don't agree with the actions of Just Cookies there are currently no laws that protect the rights of the gay community. Businesses do have the right to refuse service to whoever they want but I don't agree with thier reasons. I also think that its wrong of them to lie about why they refused to make the cookies, if they didn't want to serve them they should have the guts to give the reason for it. I do believe however that the gay community should have the same rights and protections as everyone else.
ReplyDeleteSmall businesses should be able to pick who they sell to. In a competitive world if they chose not to take in these sales and suffer consequences by their actions that is their plight.
ReplyDeletesmall businesses operate within their own community. Not offering services to a set group of people is going to hurt their sales not only from the people they deny, but from people who don't descriminate as well. Covering up peoples opinions will not help to solve the issue. But if we let them out in the open and meet them face to face, I believe we will see more change. So I believe small businesses should be able to operate at their own risk.
To me, the restaurant had a right to refuse the group. This is not necessarily even discrimination to me. When I think of discrimination, I think of years ago when many were refused service because of their race. Now, this is discrimination. This group asked for cookies that was an advocate to their beliefs and choices and the company did not agree with those same beliefs. Therefore, they refused to make the cookies. Bottom line: I believe companies have a right to decide to whom they serve to some extent. As for equality among those of all backgrounds, people should not be treated differently because of what they believe. It is their choice even if it is not personally agreed with by others. Laws should be put in place to some extent to clarify this problem. However, people's choices and beliefs will always be different. So, as people, we will never be the same.
ReplyDeleteI dont think they violated anything, I do think it is their choice.
ReplyDeleteNot that I agree with the choice they made, but it is their business and they get to pick how to run it.
I feel like people in general need to be more open minded and less arrogant. I think as the years go on the issue will become more accepted.
I think no matter what sex you are, or what sex are you attracted to, people should not discriminate a person for their sexuality.
ReplyDeletePersonally, I think that the business Just Cookies violated the anti-discrimination ordinance. Although the business is most likely allowed to refuse service to anyone, within reason. When the businessman said that he did not want to subject his daughters to him making cupcakes for homosexuals. Rather than saying something like that, the owners of the business should have kept their stories straight.
ReplyDeleteThis is obviously a hard an intense subject for me to talk about. I will do my best not to get angry in the meantime.
ReplyDeleteI do not think that it's fair that the cookie company denied the order. Maybe if the salesperson had at the very least lied stating that they were over booked or something then in some way their actions could be justified. It's so easy to cast judgements from the outside looking in. As a homosexual, I have been refused service. You feel like a red dot in a sea of blue. There is really nothing that can be said about the uncomfortable feeling.
As far as what could be done to create equality, I'm not sure. It's a cookie business. It's nothing that is political or in any kind of social light. You would think that they would be grateful that more business was coming in to get their name out there.
-Chris Johnson
ReplyDeleteFor your first question, this is kind of a mixed question. Cause to deny service to anyone can almost always be skewed as discrimination. As for this instance in particular, it's hard to say. Now personally, I don't know the whole story nor do I know the exact verbiage that was exchanged between the owner and the customers. Clearly the owner understood what the order was for, but depending on how they approached the situation it's possibly it couldn't be defined as discrimination.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong here, but I thought gays were not included in the anti-discrimination ordinance. If so, then legally they did nothing wrong.
As for creating equality in today's world. I really don't see that happening anytime soon nor do I see any surefire way of dealing with it. Everyone has beliefs and opinions and there are those out there who take those beliefs a bit too far. Eliminate the extremists and your problem is solved.
I do not think that business can accept or decline a certain group simply because they don’t agree with their lifestyles. I believe that yes, Just Cookies did violate the anti-discrimination ordinance. They could have at least tried to hide the reason why they didn’t service them. Such as charge a ridiculous amount or say that they really were out of that type of icing, or cookie dough to finish the order. I think that they very bluntly made it obvious that the reason they didn’t take the order was simply because they were gay. I’m not really sure what could be done to ensure quality to all people, ignorance is something that is hard to force out of someone. The only thing I could think of is fining the companies that are not offering fair or equal service to people. That way they can see how their choices can affect their income.
ReplyDeleteThey technically didn't violate the anti-discrimination act since homosexuals are not included. But people who consider themselves homosexuals or any other orientation other than strait are still people who deserve to be treated exectly the same way. I think that parents need to teach kids that no matter what, everyone needs to be treated the same. It is called the golden rule for a reason. Actually getting kids to accept that rule is the hard part.
ReplyDeleteWell I find this shocking and its shocking to me that the store owner (the man) was so nonchalant about not wanting to do the order. No one should be discriminated about, period. I find it hard to believe that this is a current issue but sadly I realize it is. People are people and they deserved to be treated as that, and that example needs to be set in homes so that future generations will understand. Its ok not to agree with a persons views or lifestyle but it is never grounds to discriminate against them or treat them any less than any other person. I think that schools should also teach that we treat others how would would want to be treated no matter what, no matter what they look like or how they live.
ReplyDeleteI absolutely think that this was an act of discrimination. If a straight person went there and asked for a rainbow cupcake the business would have had no problem making it for them but since they were homosexuals they wouldn't make them. It's not fair to deny someone of something just because of thier lifestyle or sexual preferences. You wouldn't be able to deny an African American of a rainbow cupcake because that would be discrimination. To me it is the exact same concept. I think it is sad that people are pretty much repeating the past when it comes to gay rights. They are people just like everyone else they eat, sleep, and breath just like everyone else on this planet. They should be able to have all they same rights as everyone else as well. We allow people in the U.S. to practice any religion they want worship the devil if they want as long as it isn't hurting anyone. So why can't people practice homosexuallity without discrimination?
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