This week we will begin a discussion on First Amendment freedoms, which of course, includes freedom of religion. I make no secret of my faith. That being said, I believe strongly in the concept of everyone being free to practice their faith how they choose. I recognize that what I believe may not be what every other American believes. Having the freedom to practice our religion is one of the things that makes us uniquely American, and something that we often take for granted.
Last week the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals upheld the use of the words "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance and "In God We Trust" on U.S. currency, rejecting arguments the words violate the separation of church and state doctrine in the First Amendment. Writing for the majority, Judge Carlos Bea stated, "The Pledge of Allegiance serves to unite our vast nation, through proud recitation of some of the ideals upon which our Republic was founded". In a separate ruling, the appeals court upheld the inscription of the national motto "In God We Trust" on coins and currency, saying that the phrase is ceremonial and patriotic, not religious.
Locally, the valedictorian at Greenwood High School is asking a federal judge to stop a graduation prayer that the senior class voted to approve. His lawsuit argues that both the prayer and the vote unconstitutionally subject religious practice to majority rules.
So my question to you this week is, "Do you think commencement prayers violate the First Amendment? Why or why not? Would you have a problem being exposed to a prayer from another religion in school?" Answers are due no later than Thursday, March 18th, 2010. Being an Irish girl myself, I would like to wish all of you a happy and safe St. Patrick's Day! Erin Go Bragh!
I do think it violates the first amendment. Personally I'm not going to state my religion however I throughout high school did not say the pledge of allegiance. We were not forced to if it went against our religion to "pledge" to God in that way. I think it violates the first amendment because if we have our currency stating in God we trust, well excuse me but my religion doesn't trust in God. He's not my all mighty. And as far as the pledge, it does go against the supposed "separation" of church and state. It's not that I would be offended but if someone else is offended by me praying to my god for my religion then what gives them the right to pray to theirs. I'm sorry if I offended anyone with my response however we probably don't share the same religion.
ReplyDeleteWell since I am doing my topic on prayer in schools, I know a little bit about this :) In 1992, the Supreme Court said schools could not pray at graduation ceremonie. However, many schools do practice this. In the case of the student mentioned above, if the entire class wanted some to pray at their ceremony then it should be allowed. It would be a different story if they class voted against the prayer and the school was making them pray anyway. I wonder if they valedictorian expressed his feels about the prayer to his classmates before going to court. I think it's wrong that he wants the prayer stopped when his class wants it. If students to agree with the prayer they don't have to participate. No one is saying he has to pray with the class. If some students want to pray then pray and if they don't then don't pray.
ReplyDelete~Kyndall Friday night
Like you said i am also all for freedom of religion. therefore i have no problem with other religions being exposed to me in school.that being said, i believe strongly in the fact that this country is founded on christian principles and so i think it means that if there is a commencement prayer, that should be respected in a patriotic sense, not necessarily a religious sense. that way if somebody is from a different religion they will not be offended by the prayer. for example the main religion in india is Hinduism i believe, if i went to an indian school i would fully respect listening to their prayer because it goes back to the roots of that country, and me being from a different place, i can take that prayer and regard it in a christian way and still respect it. does that make sense lol?
ReplyDeleteThis isn't my official blog post, but in my humble opinion, I think someone would be hard pressed to convince anybody that they're proud of what they believe in if they can't even reveal it on an internet blog.
ReplyDeleteBut that's just me.
Christelle, you said something I must address, and I'm sure you won't be the last under this prompt to say this, however, I agree with some of the other things you said, so don't feel like I'm picking on you...
ReplyDelete" i believe strongly in the fact that this country is founded on christian principles"
I hear this a lot, and I think back to how this country was started: 3 MAJOR things we need to look at
A) Settlers ultimately stole a large piece of land from its original inhabitants, murdering those who got in the way.
B) Colonists killed thousands of British soldiers in the Revolutionary War (I realize it was a war. Murder is murder.)
C) Men, women, and children are taken from their families to be shackled and forced to work without pay the rest of their lives under hellish conditions; having hardly the freedom to think, much less make any personal decisions.
When I look at those, I think to myself...Christian? Not really. Contrary to what your neighborhood atheist may tell you, Christianity preaches love above all else. If anybody can logically explain how love was the motive for any of those three movements, I may recommend a career as a defense attorney.
America wasn't established as a country because Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson wanted to have their own peaceful land where they could freely practice Christianity. It was TAXES. With that said, we can omit the argument that America is somehow a "Christian country", or something to that extent.
So now we have freedom of religion vs. the seperation of church and state. I don't think freedom of religion is so much of a gray area, that is, until combatted with the latter. A freedom denotes that one can make a personal choice. One may be assertive in his or her interpretation of spirituality, or decide to accept scientific theory. Whether a prayer is personal or school-wide, each individual can make the decision whether or not to participate. The FIRST ammendment gives us religious freedom; written as if to say "Hey, look at me, I'm important!". Seperation of church and state was established so America wouldn't have bishops and cardinals making government policy decisions. I'm well aware of the power of interpretation mixed with opinion, but everyone needs to remember the time in which our constitution was written.
pt 2 below
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteWell when you put it in those terms, if we were to be repeating or stating another religion I would probably just keep my mouth shut and not say anything and be offended later because it wasn't how I was raised. I feel that when the Pledge and National Anthem was written a while back it was a different time and we believed in different things. Now it stands for something different and maybe it does need to be altered so that freedom of religion is equal. However, I think the words "In God We Trust" is both ceremmonial, patriot and religion. Not every religion believes in a God.
ReplyDeleteTaylor Northam
Friday Night
March 14, 2010
(continued from 1st entry)
ReplyDelete...What we're left with is the fact that many people are offended by prayer in school. THIS is the driving force behind the majority of debates on this issue. The word offensive, in itself is extremely subjective. In my girlfriend's opinion, farting is offensive. In my grandma's opinion, mini skirts and hooker heels are offensive. My mom doesn't like when people chew with their mouths open. Why? IT'S OFFENSIVE..........to her. But that doesn't mean people shouldn't have the freedom to do these things, correct?
It's hard for me to understand how God can be so offensive in the first place. I can easily see how many get pissed at those who misinterpret God, or God's will, but God himself? God is love, wisdom and understanding. How is that offensive? I can decide one day that I'm offended by spiked hair, and nobody will give a damn, but what's the difference? Our universe was created and is ultimately regulated by God, and many understand how critical it is to have a relationship with him........except in school?!?!?! "Chill out God, I'm in biology, I'll get at you later." Let's be serious. I speak of God in a factual manner because he is real. Has anyone ever looked up in the sky and said "Well, my personal belief is that the sky is blue"; or "Not to offend anyone but my interpretation of this grass is that it is green." Science and spirituality will never fully coincide, and because of this, we are given doubt to counterpoint faith. I’m a proud Christian, and prayer is my birthright, regardless of time or place.
So I guess the answer to my question is “no”.
It is never my aim to offend anyone, however I will NOT apologize for anything I’ve said.
I do not believe that it is impeding on their rights. My belief is that if you don't want to say under God, then don't. If you have the faith and believe this nation is under God then believe an say it. It is annoying to me that people now a days are so quick to say they were wrongs and sue for things. When I grew up, no one questioned the Pledge, no one questioned the prayers. SO, my question is what has changed from then to now. A measly 20 years and its a different story. People should be allowed to believe whatever they want. If you don't want to pray,don't pray, but don't try and push your beliefs onto someone else who wants to pray.
ReplyDeleteSarah Cason Friday Night
I personally, being an spiritual agnostic, have no issues against prayer. I neither approve or am offended by such acts. But as far as the first amendment is concerned, there is freedom of religion. And within that particular right, and in a country with various religions, I can see where it would be offensive. I remember at my graduation there were some very ethnic african-americans dressed in traditional wear whom could very well not believe in the same God or the same forms of prayer as were given at my graduation. As far as the amendment separating church from state, I do feel having prayer in state-run schools is crossing boundaries. But we allow religion to cross a lot of boundaries. So the lines of separation of church and state are very fuzzy. I think, more or less, that the true bounds of these amendments need to be addressed and made clear before anyone can say what is an issue and what isn't as far as religion and various political issues are concerned.
ReplyDeleteNicole Welty Friday Night
It seems that freedom of religion would also allow the use of it in anthems and currency, but I can see how it offends people who may feel like it is forcing the concept of "god" onto them. We argue about too much and if we would just say" It is what it is" then I think people would find they are free from having to always prove they are right or that this over here is wrong and their own beliefs are right, it's a bit ridiculous I think. I like these blogs but I'm very much against holding firm opinions and concrete beliefs so I try to be neutral in these posts. I wouldn't mind being exposed to different religious prayers in school, I wouldn't understand them, but it'd be interesting to see how people of that religion react to those prayers.
ReplyDelete-Grant Monson Friday 6pm class
ok I don't think commencements prayers violate the 1st amendment, but some people might feel that way. There are alot of different religions, mainly in High Schools now days because they are becoming more and more so diverst. I think as far as the prayer goes, I think that they should just stop it because its not everybodies relgion. But I wouldnt have a issue going to a school that pratices a different religion than me because i know what I truly believe in. That will not STOP ME from getting my education.
ReplyDeleteRadine Smith
Saturday Morning
I can understand why "under god" in the pledge of allegiance and "in god we trust" on currency are deemed allowable. They have been around for SO long! That doesn't seem like a legitimate reason, but can you imagine how ground-breaking (and honestly, unnecessary, considering all the REAL issues there are going on in the world) it would be to have those things removed? I am agnostic. That being said, I have absolutely no problem with everyone believing what they wish. However, I think that commencement prayers are ultimately unnecessary. It is a ceremony that has absolutely nothing to do with religion. It's graduation, not Sunday morning church service. If praying is that important to you, then by all means, go ahead. I simply don't think it is necessary to be announced and essentially required for everyone to go through before the ceremony.
ReplyDeleteCarina Street
Friday Night Class
I think prayer in school is totally fine. I don't have a problem with it, im christian and if some other religion was being practiced at school, I wouldn't have a problem with it, at my high school we said the pledge, had a moment of silence, and sometimes even a prayer, if a different religion wanted a prayer or something, go for it. I think its a shame that the val. is making this a huge deal if the whole class wants the prayer. One person doesn't win over a huge amount(im assuming its a big class) But like others have said, if the whole class didn't want the prayer, then don't do it, but the class wants it and is ok with it the valedictorian should go along with what the class wants, its everyones graduation, not just his/hers. I think it's fine. Majority rules right.
ReplyDeleteJessie Buechler Friday night
I am a christian and I think that if you would like to pray at school then go ahead. I find it weird that people get so offended when the word "religion" comes into play at school. I have always been taught that Religion is the one on One with you and your maker. What ever religion you believe in it seems to me that there is always a supreme being of some sort that you believe in. I think that since "common" schools try way to hard to be PC. That you cant offend to many kids because if you do they might go home and tell what they have seen or heard. I think that schools should stop trying to be PC and just realize that they are now the melting pot of today.
ReplyDeleteReligion really isn't offensive as a whole. It could be the crazies that are trying to force religion is where it gets a little odd.
When I was attending my high school I found it offensive that a lot of the science teachers would actually "Bash" religion, and how the teachers could teach about the big bang theory but put God into any speech or prayer...
I have said it a couple of times in these blogs... Schools should do what they need to do Teach us. When they are trying to not offend is when they end up offending. Black taping the paragraph instead of reading it to its entirety...
I really see it as just a tradition, a reminder of where we are- the United States of America, founded on beliefs based on Christianity, or... something like it.
ReplyDeleteim not sure who i'm addressing this to, i think it's just people in general, nobody in particular- most likely the folks standing on soap boxes and writing letters to schools because they're so incredibly offended by the pledge of allegiance...
If a few minutes of reciting a few verses from memory infringes on your rights, or you interpret that as a threat to your freedom of religion, i think you're kind of missing the point.
being tolerant of other religions is the implied goal of declaring freedom of religion in the first, FIRST amendment. so your revulsion and rejection of a few minutes and a few 'unpleasant references to deities you don't believe in' means you're missing the point.
freedom of religion is not realized through the abolishment of religion.
freedom of religion means you shut the hell up when someone else is talking about, or demonstrating devotion to their religion.
and you know, if you don't like the pledge of allegiance, there's a lot of other places you could live... other countries... try that for a few years, see how much it bothers you to pledge f*****g allegiance to the country that's keeping your a*s safe while you're sleeping.
it's a school. most likely a public school. you're not paying to go there. you're paying for lunch, you're paying for buses, but you're not paying to go there. this 'prayer' isn't happening on your time.
Demian Stevens.
Saturday Morning.
Rachel Friday Night
ReplyDeleteI don't really know how I feel about this one. I guess I have never thought about it like that. I personaly don't think that it is violating anyones rights. I really wouldn't have a problem being exposed to another religion I think everyone has the right to express themselfs even if it is within religious context. As long as they are not trying to push their faith on others than I see no problem in it.
I dont think it wrong at all and I do think people are being over sencitive and just being stupid. People to me now a days seem to be complaining way too much.
ReplyDeleteI dont thing its wrong at all because you can't force people to pray. If you dont want to pray you could just stand there and be quiet til its over. Maybe people would feel better if it was called a moment of silence and you could pray during the silence or just be silent lol.
ReplyDeleteMichelle Sykes Saturday AM
Anna Wilson
ReplyDeleteFriday Night
I feel that praying is something people can do if they want to, but should not be a part of the graduation ceremonies at school due to the controversial issues it could cause (such as the one at Greenwood High School). I feel a moment of silence should be done, which will help prevent any additional problems from occurring. Because of being one religion and not wanting to practice other religions, I do not want to have to be forced to sit through other prayers and even say in my head a different religion than what I believe in. Therefore, I feel that praying at graduation does violate the First Amendment, regardless of how religious I may be.
Aaron Ford Saturday Morning
ReplyDeleteI think it violates the First Amendment separation of church and state. At a place like a publicly funded school, I certainly think that students should not have to be a part of any kind of religious belief. I would feel uncomfortable praying to a different God than mine, so it should not be forced upon anyone. Wars have been fought for less than that when it comes to religion. It is a very touchy subject. It was acceptable in the past, but things were much less PC back then. With today's sensitive climate, it isn't a good idea.
Kati Melcho
ReplyDeleteFriday Night
I, personally, don't have any problem with prayer at a graduation because I, myself, am a Christian. I do agree that, from anyone else's religion, it does seem like too much of a connection of church and state. It is understandable if the school is a religious one; but because public schools are public and, therefore, payed for by the state, it is only fair that it should be separated from religion.
I really don't have an opinion one way or another on this topic. I'm not a religious person to begin with but in my opinion they should leave out the prayer at graduation and schools in general because we are so religiously diverse these day that if were not willing to pray for all religions who to say which religin we do pray for. I don't really mind the prayers personally, but again I'm not religious so I'm not bothered by it, but I could see how people who are very religious wouldn't want another prayer read to them.
ReplyDeleteI honestly see no problem with prayer in schools or ceremonies; as long as no one is forced to participate and no group or individual is under persecution for not going participating in the prayer. I can understand that some people may not like being around the prayers or ceremonies of another religion, but unless their rights are being violated by such actions I believe that they should be obligated to respect the rights of the person or persons participating.
ReplyDeleteMichael Moore
Saturday AM
I agree with what some of the people are saying up top that if someone wants to have prayer in school or anything other its the respect that means something. I think the kid trying to stop the prayer in school is more of just a stunt to pull because he can. I don't know the whole case but from what i heard that is my opinion about it. At my home we had a problem with a kid that didn't want to say the prayer with us before a game. he didn't tell any of us or just respectfully say he didn't want to join us. instead he went to the principle and after a long in school battle we were told we couldn't pray in a group anymore. Its sad because the kid said he was an atheist which in terms means he be leaves in no god or anything. its not any of my business on how he lives his life. but to him it was a big enough deal that he had to stop the rest of the team from saying prayer. I thought it was just disrespectful.
ReplyDeleteNo, I don't believe a prayer at a graduation violates the first ammendment. It's more of a prayer of good luck and success anyway. They are never very religious prayers. They also don't represent one specific religion, it's just a general prayer. It's not like everyone is made to make the sign of the cross. I would be offended if a "non christian prayer" was said but like I said before the prayers said at graduation are not specific to a religion. Also, more people believe in some type of religion than not believeing in anything at all anyway.
ReplyDeleteCarolyn Carden Friday night
I use to say the pledge of legions when i was a kid. When people come to this country to be a US citizen. They should follow are constitution. If they dont like it they should go back where they came from. To many complian to much about America. Its the greatest country in the world. Where else can you be free to express yourself.
ReplyDeleteI think it does violate it because not every one has a god anyway or practices a religion this country is too diverse if some one wants to make a prayer they should get their own group and do it but it shouldn't be an everybody thing.
ReplyDeleteNicaury Guerrero
saturday morning class
I personally am agnostic and i attended catholic schools my entire life and i personally had no problem with prayers in the classroom. Although i do no speak for anyone else, i do know personally that nothing is ever forced down peoples throats, we have the option to walk away, or simply not listen, or choose to ignore it. Also i have to ask the opposite side of the coin here.. if we ban prayers during certain ceremonies or if we try to remove religious words from objects, are we not just taking away those who worship rights?
ReplyDeleteTatjana McCart
Saturday Morning Class
Late